Poe? or Alternate Personal Universe?

22 April, 2009

Poe’s Law states:

Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won’t mistake for the real thing.

Which makes it rather difficult for me, as an atheist blogger, to deal with some of the sites which I find as I have been that someone.  Some turned out to be true Poe sites.  Others, maybe.  My problem is that I am not only an atheist, not only a blogger, but am also quite gullible.  So, I have tried to be much more careful when writing about a possible religious web site.

I think this one is real (but, I’ve wrong before (frequently)):  Society for the Practical Establishment and Perpetuation of the Ten Commandments.  Basically, the whole idea of the site is that man cannot make law.  Only god(s) can make law:

Only the Creator of the heavens and the earth to whom all mankind are responsible can properly govern them; and He has graciously given them His most wise, noble, righteous and perfect moral Laws by which all people are responsible to perfectly conform in thought word and deed – in every detail of their lives. His righteous Laws are the only ones which have ever and will ever exist that can definitely work for the total good of every society. (Here)

The supporting documents for this authoritarian and dictatorial stance?  They list supporting documents (with links  Oz pointed out that they are all broken, not worth my sanity to put them in individually, but click here to get to the ‘menu’):

  • God is the Author of the TEN COMMANDMENTS
  • Our Greatest Responsibilities
  • Evil Freedom should be disallowed
  • What the Declaration of Independence says must be done to fix America
  • The proper attitude
  • America is a thoroughly corrupt tree
  • Clean government
  • Congress prevented from honoring God
  • Freedom to practice idolatry
  • The Superior Pledge
  • What the heathen Statue of liberty really means
  • What the PREAMBLE to the heathen american constitution really means
  • Things you should know

Now, if I was a real asshole, I could work through every single link and tear apart the ‘supporting documents.’  Which are not supporting documents.  They are supporting essays?  rambles?  rants?  obfuscations?  Instead, I will just do one.  The first, called:


The TEN COMMANDMENTS are the most extraordinary principles in the universe (more extraordinary than the principles of art?  economics?  design?  accounting?  extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence)! That is not an opinion but a solid fact (Really?  Fact?  Solid fact?  What facts?). One reason they are so is that they were not authored by any creature (Are human beings creatures?  We are mammals, right?  Oh.  He means God(s)). No human nor angel can rightly claim authorship thereof (Because if they were written by humans, there would be more than one version of them, right?).

Since the TEN COMMANDMENTS did not originate from any creature and could not have come into being on their own, there is only one other source from whom they could have and did originate (No evidence was supplied to support that assertion.  Fail). That source is the almighty GOD – the Creator of the heavens and the earth (Unsupported assertion.  Again.).

The TEN COMMANDMENTS therefore had a divine origin. Each one of them serve as an indisputable witness to the existence of the almighty GOD. That is a most awesome fact which should be duly noted throughout the lifetime of every human being. (Is it just me, or is the author merely repeating the same unsupported assertion again and again?  Repeated fail.)

For those who call themselves “atheists” and “agnostics” – who think that what we have stated is foolishness, please seriously consider the following indisputable evidence that prove that GOD MOST HIGH is the Author of the TEN COMMANDMENTS: (Wow.  All caps.  Then it MUST be true.)

  1. THEY ARE EVERLASTING LAWS: No creature has the wisdom or power to create anything that endures forever. That fact is quite clear from everything man fashions. All of it fades away eventually. Man could not have made that which is eternal while he can’t even keep his own body from dying and decaying. He who is mortal cannot create that which is immortal. An eternal law has to have an eternal author. (But your version of god(s) is, what, 6,000 years old?  The universe is about 13.7 billion years old.  What was that about forever?)
  2. Since the TEN COMMANDMENTS are eternal (Again, you asserted that without evidence), THEY ARE IMMUTABLE: All laws made by the creature are subject to change and destruction even while their authors live or die. Even the most wrongly venerated human charter on earth – the American Constitution – has been changed and amended.  (Which Ten Commandments?)
  3. THEY ARE INDESTRUCTIBLE: The eternal nature of the TEN COMMANDMENTS is also seen in the fact that for over 6,000 years, they have endured the fiercest attacks and endeavors by their enemies to destroy them, even in the absence of effort of anyone to protect them. They survive in their original form, unpolluted and unchanged with the most of satanic and human power arrayed against them. No creature would make an eternal law that he hates even if he had the power to make such a law.  (Again, Which Ten Commandments?)
  4. THEY ARE UNIVERSAL IN AUTHORITY: The universal authority of the TEN COMMANDMENTS over all mankind proves they are from God. No creatures either singly or collectively have the power to impose laws upon every single member of mankind and make every member of mankind legal and rightful subjects with the unquestionable responsibility to perfectly obey them. Whenever and wherever the creature has made laws, the laws’ authority has always been limited. (Prove it.  Prove that all human constructions (including religion) incorporate the Ten Commandments.  Prove that all civilizations which have ever existed, on earth and on other planets, incorporate the Ten Commandments.  Do that, and maybe I will believe anything you write.)
  5. THEY ARE PERFECT IN AUTHORITY: The universal authority of the TEN COMMANDMENTS over every thought, word and deed any human can perform demonstrates that God is their author. No angel nor human has the capability to impose a law over every deed that creatures can perform. Only God can legislate the thoughts, emotions, sentiments, likes and dislikes of every rational creature. No human has the ability to tell what’s in a person’s heart. Further, no creature can maintain an accurate record of every infraction or obedience to a law performed either in the heart or outwardly. It takes the almighty God to perfectly know and keep an accurate record of the deeds every human has performed; hold every human accountable; and judge them rightly and fairly in the end. (For a perfect set of laws, why are there so many versions?)
  6. THEY ARE UNIVERSAL IN CONDEMNATION: God’s own sentence of death and eternal punishment upon every member of mankind for disobedience to His Law in the first man Adam is proof that God is the author of the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Had any human been the author, he would not have devised a law that condemned himself to death and eternal punishment in the lake of fire. No one has ever or will ever escape God’s sentence of death. Had the creature made the TEN COMMANDMENTS, the sentence of the law could not be assured to fall upon every person of mankind. We already see foolish man endeavoring to nullify the death sentence. Whenever and wherever man has made laws, there has been partiality in sentencing, bribery, loopholes and other means of escape. But such is not possible with God’s Law. (Again, prove the universality.  Also, the author keeps claiming that this is all from god(s).  And there is no evidence for the existence of god(s).  There is no evidence for the existence of the Judeo-Christian god(s) except a collection of myths written between 1900 and 3,000 years ago.)

I stongly suspect this site is real.  And scary as hell.  Don’t think it’s scary?  Take a look at the last ‘supporting document’:  Things you should know, which includes the statement, “DEMOCRACY falls short of the glory of God, and therefore it is an absolute failure.”  Or  “Better is a dictator who rules every aspect of the lives of the people with true justice and righteousness, than a democracy wherein the people indulge in the evil and idolatrous freedom they desire.”  And, lastly,  “No citizen of the United States can have the proper attitude toward America unless his sentiments border on sedition or treason.”  But remember, it’s us atheists who are un-American, right?

Part of me has to admire the asshats responsible for this site.  They have taken the ‘logic’ of the Bible to the illogical extreme.  Do you think any of them actually try to live by what they have written here?  Do you think that any of these people are politically active with the modern incarnation of the Republican Party?  Do these people scare you?

And, most of all, I wonder what colour the sky is in their personal universe?



  1. Extraordinarily deluded irrational illogical crazy people! And a little bit scary.

    Perhaps you got Poe’d again?

  2. Oz: I hope so.

  3. Just been having a look at the site (by the way that list of links of yours are all broken) it’s quite amateurish. No one uses scrolling marquees and frames any more. How about the scrolling text:

    We do not support absolute free speech on the internet or any other place. We support only that speech which is good and right in the sight of GOD MOST HIGH. To support speech other than that is pure heathen insanity

    The only insanity around here is the insanity of the author(s) of that site!

    It has to be a Poe.

    How about the disclaimer at the top of the “Exposing the Atheist” page

    This site was produced by an ex-atheist

    the stupid is strong with this one

  4. Oz: Again, could be. The amateurishness of the site, to me, tends to add versimilitude. If Poe, quite well done. If not, yikes!

    I added an addendum to the list of links (thanks for spotting that).

    I’ve known enough radical Christians over the years (especially in high school) to have heard many of these arguments ad nauseum. The anti-democracy stuff is somewhat new, but I have also run into the whole god(s)’ law trumps human law many times; and gods(s)’ dictatorship of heaven’s superiority to any human institution has been in there, too.

  5. To those who subscribe to the Ten Commandments fanatically, secular society indeed poses a threat to their ideal way of life as commanded by the bible, so for some who are highly motivated, they have to assuage their guilt by at least trying to bring down the secular establishment, which is seen as an impediment to their fully observing God’s laws. (For example, a secular society may require that they work on a sabbath.) So that they will at least have an excuse when they have to stand before God’s judgement seat.

  6. Temaskian: Considering the hostility toward democracy in almost all Jedeo-Christian writings, I’m actually quite amazed at the support by fundamentalist Christianity for at least the outward trappings of democracy. Of course, for the Christian and political right, democracy is only a suggestion (see Florida, 2000, Minnesota, 2008, and New York, 2009, for good examples) to be overturned if possible because the people don’t know what is best for them. I wonder how many Christians dream of taking down our current form of government and replacing it with a Christian version of Iran?

  7. (((Billy))), What scares me more is how many of the fanatical radical right fringe nutbags, under the guise of “religion” (ie.militia and paramilitary )are supporting overthrow of the government.

  8. The site could be a Poe, but it strikes me as frighteningly plausible (of course, that’s the strength of Poes). The color scheme isn’t hideous and the fonts aren’t bizarre, like what one finds on many fundie sites. On the other hand, frames and scrolling marquees are, what, 10 years out of date? Some Christian sites I know are authentic are still using that stuff. What do you expect? Those gimmicks are just as outdated as the Ten Commandments they’re touting.

  9. Sometimes it is hard to tell The Poe from The Non-Poe. But be of good cheer!!! There is a simple test to separate the wheat from the chaff!!1!

    Simply throw it against the wall and see if it sticks… wait, no. Oh, right! The simple test is to Use The Force, (((Billy)))… or, maybe that’s not the right one, either.

    Oh! Now I remember! Just pray for enlightenment. That’s the sure-fire test. Almighty God Above will tell you what to believe.

  10. Tau: Have you heard about the plans for a “Million Militia March” on Washington? Of course, no Christianist or Dominionist theocrap will be involved in that, right?

    Chappie: Yeah. I could not believe I was seeing a frame. But, if you think the Bible (OT) is the only way to live, primitiveness is kinda necessary.

    Postie: Yeah. I’ll do that. While I wait for the giant winged porcupines to fly backwards out of my ass.

  11. (((Billy))), I had not heard of that but as I read I noticed the part about Michigan , which being where I reside, gave a bit of pause. The fact that these nutbags have guns is one of the reasons I own mine.

  12. The ten commandments might be helpful to a society, but they don’t do much.

    The first one to have no other Gods before Elohim. An atheist can keep this one because he doesn’t worship any particular God before the Bible God.

    Atheists don’t worship graven images.
    Many atheists in non-Christian countries aren’t aware of God – they can’t take his name in vain.

    Doing no work on the Sabbath … hey anyone that is rich and lazy can keep that commandment without any effort.

    Honoring ones’ parents is particularly practiced in Asian and Chinese societies.

    Most people don’t murder. Most people don’t go around falsely bearing witness against others. Many people don’t commit adultery – and in ancient Israel they were legally allowed to divorce – although one or two other Old Testament scriptures expressed that God was displeased or “hated” divorce.

    Most people don’t steal. Coveting, it might be the most common sin – but I’ve also heard that it is never confessed to Roman Catholic priests. It seems Christians don’t take it to seriously. But, maybe coveting means something stronger like “drooling after something” that is someone else’s.

    In the new testament it says that the law was made for bad people. So if someone needs a commandment to keep him from murdering someone – he already has his share of problems.

    In any case this is all inadequate because love is supposed to be the most important element of religious belief.

    But the article rightly expresses the views of many Christians that I’ve come across. Many Christians will disagree with a focus on love. They have this view of a hateful God. Billy has rightfully attacked the absurdity of a notion of a hateful deity. A Christian in this article also exposes the total nonsense that believing in a hateful God requires.


    The author apologies at a few points for his sarcasm but I think everyone here would be most comfortable as he skewers the theology of an angry God who just has to torture everyone for eternity if they don’t accept Jesus.

    It is entitled “Don’t you just hate Christian tracts?” and he hates them as much as you do. Probably more so because he has an attachment to the theology hijacked by hateful people – who teach that God as hateful as they are – or even more hateful.

  13. Thomas: Good points on the ten commandments but, again, which version do you describe? There’s more than one version.

    Also, I think that, both historically and currently, the prohibitions against false witness and murder, as it already is as regards coveting of wife and goods, could more accurately be read as including the phrase ‘of thy neighbor.’ As the Old Testament repeatedly shows, if they are not your ‘neighbor’ (I read that as tribal identity), their wife, goods and life are fair game. In modern Christianity, lieing for Christ is a rather common occurence.

    And as for your last, I can honestly say I don’t hate Christian tracts. I find them amusing. I find them disturbing. I find them under my windshield wiper. but I do not hate them, nor do I hate the people who write them. Hate requires a level of intimacy which I would find most distasteful. Likewise, I do not hate Christianity (or any other religion) or Christians (or any other theists). I may hate (but definately do dislike and fight against) some of what they do, but even there, hate is too strong a word.

    See, I view hate as a blinding emotion. Hate limits one’s options and reduces one’s ability to react to changes in strategy. Hate is, additionally, a very authoritarian position — it is based upon a binary view: with me or against me. Likewise, I do not fight against bigotry, racism, religious abuse, or other distasteful actions or things. Instead, I fight for human rights for all and, above all, a rational and naturalistic viewpoint which accepts evidence as a valid decision-making tool.

    So, I have to object, strenuously, to your use of the term ‘hate’ to describe my attitude toward something. Hate does not advance anything — it creates an ‘ends justify the means’ attitude which is contrary to America. Hate is not productive of rationality. Hate can create attrocity.

  14. Dont bother trying to figure out what this asshole is talking about. Hes and atheist. He thinks that everything came from nothing and that the laws of thermodynamics dont apply to living things it is the LAW of thermodynamics but only the THEORY of evolution so when the LAW of thermodynamics says that entropy increases how can the THEORY of evolution say that things magically become more complex? He doesnt believe in GOD so the TEN COMMANDMENTSS, handed down from GOD on high are nothing to an atheist. Hes an atheist. He has no morality because morality comes from GOD. He has no law because law comes from GOD. He has no life because life comes from GOD. He will find himself in hell with the other atheists and satan worshippers and evolutionists who tried to use his brain to understand rather than understanding with his heart. All who read this work do not despair. GOD will find you out. GOD will know all that is in your heart. GOD will accept you when you accept GOD because GOD is the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE. How do I know this? Because GOD has spoken to me through the one BOOK in which there is no error. The one BOOK which is the unalterable word of GOD. And the TEN COMMANDMENTS are in the BIBLE, so they are the word of GOD.

  15. Um, NOYB, I think that they know that I’m an atheist. If you look at the top of any page, it kinda spells it out. As for the whole thermodynamics thingie? Red Herring. Entropy in the universe will increase. That does not preclude accumulation of energy and complexity in smaller packets — star, planet, thunderstorm, gibberish-spouting godbot. So no, the theory of evolution (google the word ‘theory’) does not break any laws of thermodynamics. Anything else? Oh, yeah — god(s) wrote the Bible because the Bible says that god(s) wrote it? How do you not get dizzy?

  16. Billy, I was working on a post on the various ways that word “hate” has been used over time and in the Bible – for it does have different, less emotionally laden acceptable usages. I won’t go there though.

    Now do I “hate” tracts or even the writing of “none of your business”? – I would gladly use most of them as kindling and the whole tenor and worth of the post by “none of your business” is in my opinion – less than useless.

    “None of your business” if he is not a POE and I have no idea whether he is or not – has jettisoned all scriptural admonishments to be “respectful”. He probably has no idea that they exist in the Bible. This is unfortunate Christians spend more time arguing against Evolution – a word that does not even occur in the Bible than they do studying scriptures such as Galatians 6:10
    “Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.”

    Now, even if Christians are to especially do good to other believers – they are still required to do good others.

    And the main commandment that fulfills all the other commandments is love. Romans 13:10 “love is the fulfillment of the law.”

    So, if “none of your business” is a Christian he should know that he is not walking in accord with the scriptures that he is telling everyone else to follow. He still has a big plank in his eye and thinks he can and help others see clearer. All the while his behavior is the worst that I’ve seen on this site Christian or Atheist.

    I am eager to see the response of “none of your business”. But it is God that he will ultimately have to answer to. “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged” Who is going to give a fair break to “none of your business” when he doesn’t give any break to others? Maybe he is just blinded by his perverted theology – or maybe he is just that type of person who sees faults in everyone else but himself.

    Gotta run.

  17. (((Billy))),

    I am shocked – nay – flabbersmacked, that you have been “and atheist” who doesn’t believe in thermodynamics all this time! Rest assured that I shall inform all, (Both!), of my friends of your nefarious… er… nefariousness and, thanks to Nunya, I shall not despair!

    Good day to you, sir!!1!

  18. Thomas: One of the (as I see it) major problems with the various sects of Christianity is the idea that right belief is the way to everlasting life. This means, of course, that each and every church believes that they, and only they, have the right answer to life, the universe, and everything. If the other churches or other people insist on beleiving the wrong things, by what right or privilege do they expect respect? People like this business guy are all too common — questioning his world view is putting his eternal bliss in question. If I am endangering his soul, why should he respect me?

    As for hate, again, it is a limiting emotion which tends to blind one to usable options. It tends to be a rather authoritarian view. Not only that, but hate takes up a shitload of energy I can be using positively somewhere else. That doesn’t mean I approve, like, or even want to hear what they have to say. Merely that, like a child’s whine, it can be tuned out to a degree and dealt with in a detached manner.

    Postman: I will not tolerate flabbersmacking on my blog! I hate flabbersmacking. And nefarious flabbersmacking? Sounds kinky.

    And don’t call me sir. I work for a living.

  19. Oh, and NOYB? Thank you for pointing out, once again, the appropriateness of the definition at the top of this post.

  20. You fucking shithead I wasn’t talking to you I know you think you are an atheist. I was talking to the real people of GOD who may read your garbage. Mr Donlon is a good example he is obviously a man of GOD who understands the joy which comes from surrendering ones life to GOD. An Mr Donlon pointing out the errors of thought to those who may be under a spell is doing good. Because it brings them to GOD. But doing good will not get you life. To be truly alive forever you must accept GOD into your life and accept JESUS as your personal savior if you dont, no matter what you do in life you will not be rewarded.

    Are you a physicist? Do you truly understand all the ramifications of GODs laws? Including the laws of Physics? No you do not. You are an ignorant little pissant who believes all that satan has told you about the THEORY of evolution without understanding GODs LAW of thermodynamics. Energy cannot be created except by GOD. The amount of energy in the universe is fading because of Eve’s sin. Which created death for all except those who accept JESUS CHRIST into his heart. Living things according to the THEORY of evolution get more complicated and more advanced. But that would mean more energy which cannot happen because of the LAW of thermodynamics. There are no eddys you fuckwad sodomite. There is only GODs energy which is part of us.

    Read about the THEORY of evolution and the LAW of thermodynamics and see which one is GODs LAW and which one is a creation of satan.

  21. NOYB,

    I think you are a talented Poe – congratulations.

    However, Christians don’t need any more help making themselves look stupid.

    However, since you give me the opportunity to talk theology (and since Billy has a rather wide allowance of what can be posted) let point out some of your errors.

    Theologically you are in error on what Jesus taught about hell. In Matthew 25 the world was gathered before him and separated into sheep and goats based not on any theology – but based on how they cared for others. Those who helped out those hungry, thirsty, naked or imprisoned were given entrance into God’s Kingdom. Those who didn’t were not. From what I know about Billy – I’d say he will be in.

    Jesus gave a parable about a fisherman catching good and bad fish. “Matthew 13:49 This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous”
    – There is no theology test here. The Jews he were speaking to would have understood this to apply to everyone.

    Even Paul said the same thing.
    NOYB you talked about the importance of the ten commandments to you. Paul wrote in Romans 2:13-16 “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.”

    Such it is with Billy. He doesn’t need a commandment to tell him not to murder. He is capable of doing a fair amount of good without a religious edict. And if I was to try to make Billy a Christian – I am not sure what church I would feel comfortable sending him to. I find attending church usually more stressful and draining than not attending church. I may visit one here or there but there is so much stupidity or shallowness in many of them. Don’t get me wrong I’d like to attend a good church but it isn’t easy finding one. I even wouldn’t mind attending a bad church if I could help restore some sanity to them without losing mine. But I am not sure that God wants me to waste my time and maybe that is why I often feel God directs away from churches.

    So the final scripture on God judging is from 1 Corinthians 4:5 “Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.”

    So if Paul says to “judge nothing” regarding the eternal state of others you might do well to stop doing that.

    Now, I also appreciate that you brought up the law of thermodynamics. Problem is, that theory is only good in a “closed system”. That is why the whole universe is not the same temperature. Your oven might be perfectly habitable, but once you introduce some added energy into the oven it gets hot. Even young earth creationist Christians believe in “microevolution”. The scientific meaning for this is evolution within a species. The differentiation of dogs is a good example of this. Now, each breed of dog has particular improvements (even if only aesthetic) to help it survive. Some are especially suited for running fast. Others are especially suited to cold weather and pulling sleds. Some dogs are great hunting companions. Some are suited to herding sheep. The variety is great and difference in skill and abilities among breeds of dogs is so great that I even wonder at what point they will be classified as different species. A tiny Chihuahua has little in common with a Great Dane. And yet they are of the same species. A common creationist ploy when it comes to evolution is to ask someone to make a Giraffe give birth to a monkey (I am just making up this specific example – but I’ve heard similar ones). Now, there isn’t one dog breed that can be bred to produce another dog breed – at least I am not aware of any. So, if the logic falls apart within the canine or dog species why use the same argument for different species?

    Evolution is solid.

  22. Mr Thomas, glad to see you agree that witnessing non-believers to the wonder of GOD is part of our duty as a CHRISTIAN. I dont know if this atheist can be saved but if he, as you said, doesnt go to church he will never know GOD. Also, your example of dogs is a perfect example of the absurdity of the THEORY of evolution. Dogs were designed by man to do certain jobs within the world just as all animals were designed by GOD to do certain jobs in the world. Glad to know we are on the same page but why are you here on this atheist blog? And I hope you are successful in finding a church of GOD in which to surrender yourself. Your happiness and eternal soul depend on it so get busy visit a church every week until you find the TRUTH. GOD Bless.

  23. Thomas:

    And if I was to try to make Billy a Christian – I am not sure what church I would feel comfortable sending him to.

    How about the one with the bar? Actually, when I visit my parents in Maine, I am very comfortable with their Unitarian Church. There is a local one ’round here, but I tend to work on Sundays, so . . . .

    NOYB: Did you even read what Thomas wrote? You are agreeing with things he never said! And what the hell am I doing trying to point out inconsistencies in what you have written? I need sleep, obviously.

  24. Billy, I’ve been getting the idea that NYOB is playing with you – even when he insults you.

    NYOB is like a political spin doctor. At the end of a political debate these spin doctors nearly invariably tell the audience why their candidate won the debate.

    NYOB appears to be trying to repackage my arguments for those who don’t read very closely.

    While there is certainly a type of “Poe” who imitates or Parodies Christians for fun, there are also those who do so out of mischievousness and malice towards to Christians probably to decrease the political clout of Christians.

    In my opinion Christians are trivializing their responsibility to do good by singling out gays – and saying nothing about the decline of marriage among Christians. Now, that I think of it, at a Christian political site a woman who I think has been divorced twice is so eager to stop gays from marrying. (Now, I would likely vote against a proposal to redefine marriage – but it sure doesn’t animate me.) Why then have a two time divorcee try to lead some fight to preserve traditional marriage?

    With Christians failing at their own marriages is the best way for them to have better marriages to fight against gay marriages all day long?

    I’d rather save many lives by fighting against the epidemic of vitamin d deficiency in this country.
    My comment is #21 at

    This autism link to vitamin d deficiency is just the tip of the iceberg. Cancers and autoimmune diseases are greatly linked to lower vitamin d levels. For much more information on vitamin d go to http://www.vitamindcouncil.org

  25. “There are no eddys you fuckwad sodomite.”

    Now I know that NOYB is a Poe. He used the F-word.

  26. Thomas: I’m beginning to think he is a Poe (attempting satire? or attempting to make theists look like idiots (not that some of them really need the help)?) As for autism? I am leary about the ‘one shot, one kill’ approach to autism causation. My personal (pulled out of my ass through personaly experience with (((son)))) is that it has to have a genetic component — which does not, of course, rule out environmental components. I suspect, additionally, that it is like modern airliner crashes — it takes more than just two or three things going wrong to take down an airliner accidentally; given the shear number of broad-spectrum autism disorders out there, the genetic and environmental combinations must be mind-boggling.

    Temaskian: I’m starting to agree with you. Randomizing software for the IP address makes it hard to tell if it is someone we know or not.

  27. I’ve seen and read about some indications of a personality/genetic component to autism and autism spectrum disorders. Our seven year old boy is on the spectrum and my wife was quite vitamin d deficient while pregnant.

    This may sound weird, but sunlight used to make my wife’s skin blotchy and irritated – so she stayed out of the sun even more. Only after aggressively taking vitamin d did her allergy to sunlight go away – as did the pains in her bones – and her balance greatly improved. Prior to getting enough vitamin d she was like a kids toy of old – the “Weeble”. “Weebles wobble, but they don’t fall down.” My wife would make me very nervous as she was often on the verge of losing her balance – until she started getting enough vitamin d.

    At the end of this paragraph is a link to a report on a scientific study that finds falls decrease among elderly who take 800 iu’s of vitamin d. It shows that even 800 iu’s of vitamin d prevented about 70% of falls in elderly populations. This was a small study – but I believe it confirmed the results of a prior study.

    Billy, even though there are a number of people that pretend to be extreme Christians – the bigger problem is that so many Christians actually hold very similar views to NOYB. A real Christian would have been more indoctrinated in his belief and would have more strongly argued with me. For NOYB to embrace me – is as absurd as Ken Ham to be embracing noble prize winner Francis Collins. (I think Francis Collins won a noble prize – I forget in what it was.) In any case, the theological divide is so big between me and NOYB that I expected NOYB to attack me if he sincerely held his theology.

    As time goes on, I’ve debated more with Christians than unbelievers. I relate to what Jesus said about some religious zealots of his day in Matthew 23:15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.”

    And to some religious law makers in Luke 11:46 Jesus said, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.”
    I thought of that when I read your last post discussing authoritarian religious people. Things don’t change.

    NOYB, I think you must have had a big, sly smile on your face when you wrote, “And I hope you are successful in finding a church of GOD in which to surrender yourself. Your happiness and eternal soul depend on it so get busy visit a church every week until you find the TRUTH. GOD Bless.”

    scary NOYB – not your mushy exhortation – but going to church is scary – sometimes almost nauseating as I fear I may be wasting time that could be better spent.

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